"Winning now, winning later" - David Cote

Episode 408, David Cote

David Cote

David Cote is Executive Chairman of Vertiv Holdings Co, a global data center products and services provider. Previously, as CEO of the industrial giant Honeywell, he grew the company's market capitalization from around $20 billion to nearly $120 billion, delivering returns of 800 percent and beating the S&P by nearly two and a half times.

Now as an author, in his new book WINNING NOW, WINNING LATER: How Companies Can Win in the Short Term While Investing in the Long Term (HarperCollins Leadership, June 2020), Cote rails against today’s trend of “short-termism” and debunks the notion that pursuing long term business growth must come at the expense of short term gains. Drawing from his remarkable turnaround case study at Honeywell, WINNING NOW, WINNING LATER shows how to run any organization, division, or team, whether a non-profit or for profit, with a new kind of rigor and balance. 

Below is an auto-generated script from the interview:

Jess: This is part two of our interview with David Cote, the former CEO and chairman of Honeywell. If you missed part one, please go back to hearing about him going in in the early 2000s at a $20 billion market cap and growing Honeywell by a hundred billion dollars.

[00:00:15]Until he left his chairman in 2018. if you haven't heard about his new book that's coming out, “Winning Now, Winning Later”, please go on Amazon and preorder that. David, I think maybe one of the first places I want to start is a little bit where we left off in the last episode you were talking about, two, the most important things in leadership is figuring out where you're going.

[00:00:35] And then part two is how to get, everybody would want to go there too. And I'm, I'm misquoting you there, but, I would love to talk about those in terms of, you know, massive growth. There's so many folks that coming into a $20 billion company, or just hearing about that the numbers are so big, they might feel foreign.

[00:00:54] And the idea of, you know, not just growing by a percentage, but growing by multiples seem, could seem extremely overwhelming or unlikely to folks. And you had done that so successfully. Can you talk about those two principles. In terms of taking something large and, you know, five times in it.

[00:01:14] David: Yeah. as you might imagine, getting back to the, what we talked about earlier, I would never point just any one thing that we did.

[00:01:23] We did a number of things. Well, I believe that we could grow through acquisitions and by, adjusting the profile of our portfolio to higher growth. That worked. I was a big believer in having growth initiatives in all of our businesses, R and D, globalization and focus on the customer. those all work.

[00:01:47] That was a big believer in process. And we talked before about our adoption of what was basically the Toyota production system across a Honeywell, what we did for new product introduction. The introduction of what we call the Honeywell user experience, to better understand the user, the installer, the maintainer.

[00:02:09] So we did a lot on the process side. I reduced the number of leaders in the business even though we were considered a lean company. we doubled the size of the company and reduced the number of leaders by about 15%, change the culture of the company to truly be one that focused on performance.

[00:02:27] And there's no company in the world who says, no, we don't care about performance, but they don't all really focus on it. And we did. And we've had people come into the company. my successor was telling me that a couple of consultants that he'd hired into the company who said, yeah, everybody talks about performance, but man, you guys really mean it over here.

[00:02:52] So that combination of things, I would say propelled us. There was no one item.

[00:02:59] Jess: Yeah. Well, there's a few things in there I want to unpack and then I want to talk about how to help everybody else want to go there as well. maybe firstly, when you think about the Toyota production system, for people who haven't really looked deeply at that world, what, what's maybe an endorsement or what's a teaser for why you think folks may want to take a deeper look at that, even if they didn't normally think of it applied to their industry.

[00:03:26] David: Well. I would guess that hos alone probably added seven or 800 basis points to our overall performance as a company on our operating margin rate. Just because we didn't need as many people, didn't need as many factories. We did a better job for our customers. And it created a more rewarding workplace.

[00:03:51] At the same time, people want it to be there because their minds were engaged in the work was a lot more fulfilling. A second thing I would have though, is be prepared. It's not as easy as people think. There's a tendency to think that you just learn a bunch of Japanese words and do those Japanese words, and then all of a sudden the money just shows up and there's a big.

[00:04:18] Acculturation process that's required, especially if it's going into an existing factory lot easier. If you're just doing this in a factory you've just built and you're going to interview a hundred people for every one you hire very different when you're going into a plant that could be 70 80 years old and the average length of service is 20 years, then you've got a very different way you have to go about doing it, but I'm a huge believer in it and work.

[00:04:46] Introducing it now into the new company. I'm associate with Vertiv holdings where I'm the executive chairman. It's New York stock exchange listed symbol VRT. So it's a big company, but we're going through and introducing it there cause I think there's the opportunity to get 50 to 100% more production out of our existing footprint just by doing what we call Vos, the Vertiv operating system.

[00:05:14] Jess: And what industry is Vertiv in? What are you guys doing?

[00:05:15] David: We make up products for data centers. So think about the big, thermal cooling systems, the uninterruptible power supplies, so that you have reliable, consistent power going into a data center. Cause they can't go down more than an hour or two a year.

[00:05:33] And, the server racks. So you think about all those servers that are sitting in a data center. They're all putting these racks, which are quite sophisticated, and we make those. Then the last piece would be what I would call the edge devices. So you think about it, not all data centers are going to be hundred thousand square feet in the North of Finland near the attic circle.

[00:05:55] A lot of these things are going to be two square feet, 10 square feet. It'll be in the factory in the store, because in order to reduce latency, the speed of response. The only way you fix that is by having computing power closer to where the action is.

[00:06:13] Jess: I love it. Well, to your earlier comment that doing lean or operational excellence or continuous improvement or whatever label they want to put on the Toyota production system, right.

[00:06:22] Maybe can you give us one tip where you are, you know, you're going into a situation, Hey, maybe this plant has been around for 70 years. You said it needs to be done differently. Any, maybe one tip for how to approach that differently.

[00:06:36] David: Yeah. one word, and it's going to be mindset and yeah. The mindset of the leader, the plant manager, plant manager, staff, the people in the facility, the total mindset has to change.

[00:06:54] Yeah. It can't be, I'm going to do my job and this too. It's gotta be, this is the way I'm going to do my job. So I have a lot of things I need to learn. And if that mindset change doesn't occur, then it won't happen. You'll have a bunch of people doing stuff. They'll be confusing activity with results.

[00:07:18] Everybody will throw around the Japanese terms and be very conversant and you'll have no numbers to show for it. If you truly change the mindset, focus on the mindset first, then you start to get people thinking differently. As a result of that, they resource differently, they act differently, and you get a much better result.

[00:07:41] And we always said when we were launching, hos said, look, as far as I'm concerned, unless we see a measurable improvement. In quality costs, delivery, inventory, and safety, then I'm going to say it's not working. We're doing a bunch of stuff and it's not working in. The other way you get those results is if you change that mindset.

[00:08:10] Jess: I love it. Maybe, maybe last thing there. When you think about it, making it magnetic, when you think about attracting people to want to change their mindset or their self identity there and any thought on that. Getting them to want to.

[00:08:24] David: Yeah. The, the toughest part is always the first one. Hm. That's why if I was trying to do something big and new, I seldom just did it across the entire company all at the same time.

[00:08:38] Cause it just, your effort gets diffused. 90% of them won't even try to do it. Well, they'll. Do what I call compliance with words rather than compliance with intent, and they don't all believe it. They're just kind of going through the corporate motions. So I found that the best thing to do is to focus and show how it works.

[00:09:06] And if people start to see, Oh my God, that really looks like that really works. Look at what they did there. That plant is doing. 17 times better than we are now because they're doing this well, we need to do that, and then you start to get that poll. But there's a lot of people, most people I would say, until they actually see it and see it performing, they just view it as program or the mom's flavor of the month and yeah.

[00:09:33] Okay. We'll play with it. We'll say all the right words, but there's not really going to be anything that comes of it. So the best thing you can do early on is figure out, okay, if you've got like 10 places that whatever you're doing, what apply. Say, okay, where's the one where they seem really interested?

[00:09:52] And then I'm going to resource it with people and money as, as is needed, and I'm going to make sure that numbers come out of this so that everybody looks at it and goes, wow, doing that. Makes it easier to make your numbers. Wow, okay, sign me up. I want to be like those guys, and having that, that case where it was real and everybody could see it makes a big difference.

[00:10:19] Then you get pull instead of always pushing.

[00:10:21] Jess: I love it. You know, as you're telling that, I can't help but think about my first tour. I went to a place called us synthetics. They make artificial diamonds, like for the drilling industry. And, that's what it was for me too when I actually saw it and I'm, I'm meeting some, you know.

[00:10:38] I was meeting some kids that looked like when I used to work at a kitty litter factory when I did construction jobs in high school. Right. And I remember what those guys were like when I was working with them. Right. And these kids are so passionate to tell me about, I'm the one who thought of moving this machine, angling at 15 degrees this way and raising it an inch.

[00:10:56] Cause it cuts almost a second off every one of these units. And you're like, yep.

[00:11:00] Jess: And I just remember thinking, how did they get you to care. Like, that's great that they're making tons more money of how many tens of thousands of units an hour go around here. How did they get you to care and that that it was just, I got the bug, right?

[00:11:15] David: Well, it's exactly what happens. There's a, and I started as an hourly employee at a GE jet engine factory, so I probably have a greater even greater appreciation for this, but they really didn't want your mind engaged. Just kind of punch out the parts. And so you don't think about. Making anything any better.

[00:11:34] Nobody cares. Wouldn't matter. Yeah. There's a suggestion program, but so what? You're not really thinking about it and you find that most people want to go home at night bragging to their spouse and kids about what they got done that day. 90% of people are like that. 10% aren't, but 90% are. And if you can give them a way so that they're not just making an income but their work is fulfilling, then it just creates a better environment for everybody.

[00:12:07] Everybody's happier. The plant does better. It doesn't have to be a plant. Could be a Salesforce, could be anything. Just that engagement makes a difference. People like having their brains engaged. They don't want to just stand there, sit there for 40 50 hours a week. Saying, my job doesn't really count.

[00:12:26] What I'm doing is mindless. They want to know that what they're doing matters. And that the, as a result of that, the work is fulfilling. And to me, that's one of the human conditions is people like to do something that's fulfilling.

[00:12:39] Jess: I love it. Well, I want to shift back a little bit. I'm excited for this book.

[00:12:45]and I think maybe one of my questions is, You look at all this stuff that you've accomplished, and the just, you know, significantly outpaced returns compared to your peers and these kinds of things. If you look at all the success you've had, what are some of the main things you would attribute that to?

[00:13:06] David: Wow. Okay.

[00:13:08] Jess: What do you think? There's, there's so many great CEOs, right? But they haven't done what you did. What do you think you did different.

[00:13:17] David: Well, I'll turn it around a little bit and say, I would oftentimes be asked by investors once we did become successful. okay. What is it that would cause Honeywell's performance to stall?

[00:13:31] And they'd really want to me to say this industry or this business or. This macroeconomic indicator, something like that. Yeah, and my answer was always the same. That the only thing that would cause us to slow down would be if we lost our hunger and that that hunger had to start with me. And as long as I was still hungry for performance and still wanted to be the top performer, that hunger was still there.

[00:14:06] Then there was no nothing to worry about it or whatever it happened. We could figure it out. We'll do better than all of our peers. So I'd probably still go back to that and say there was just this basic hunger that I had and that everybody around me had to just make sure that we did better than everybody else every year. And that hunger matters.

[00:14:32] Jess: You know, I'm smiling because as you described that. It makes it sound like it makes it sound like you could turn business into a sport where it's fun to play the game and to keep trying. Is that, is that a fair analogy or would you say it differently

[00:14:45] David: Now? I would not, and I told my two sons for years said, you know, one of the things, and still do, I guess I said one of the things I love about business, it is this just never ending huge game that you play.

[00:15:03] And winning is just a pile of fun. And even if you lose, you can come back and keep playing. And that winning is just, just like any sport. It's just a lot of fun. So I never found it, kinda overburdensome or gotta hate this job or anything like that. It was just trying to figure out how to win was just fun.

[00:15:28] And then. Making sure you did it. It was just fun. I loved it. And as you could probably tell, yeah. Yeah,

[00:15:35] Jess: no kidding. any, any tips on keeping it fun when stuff gets stressful, when things don't go your way, and there's a lot of temptations to focus on the negative and not, not emphasize the fun.

[00:15:48] David: Yeah. I guess, a couple of things.

[00:15:50]the first one is. And I said this in my commencement speech that he gave at the university of New Hampshire about 10 years ago, is that most crises aren't, and things generally do look better in the morning. And yeah, you know, things happen. I'm being very careful how we say it.

[00:16:14] Jess: I appreciate that we try to keep a clean lyrics at Apple's distribution on the podcast. Well,

[00:16:20] David: so things do happen and just don't get overwhelmed by it because there's a big difference between a setback and getting killed. And if it's a setback you, you've got to be strong enough to be able to pick yourself up and run again. And most things in life aren't crises. They're just setbacks that you have to deal with and move on from, from there.

[00:16:46] So if you could keep that perspective, it helps. The second one, I would say, is to have a sense of humor, even if it's kind of a dark humor when times are bad, just finding a way with silly stuff for you and your staff and others to be able to still laugh about things. Makes a difference. So find a way to keep the humor alive and be able to see the funny side, the funny aspect of things.

[00:17:16] I mean, it is there. It may seem like it's not during the dark days, but it's still there. I guess the last one would be always to have hope. And I always said, you know, hope is a powerful human emotion, but it's not a strategy. When. Businesses would come to me sometimes with something that was more of a hope cast than a, than a forecast.

[00:17:39] But it is a powerful human emotion and always keep hope out there about, okay, this is where we're going to go, this is, this is what's going to happen. Keep that vision of how good it's going to be out there, and if you have that hunger, it does get there. It does happen. I love it.

[00:17:59] Jess: You know, I'm thinking about some of the subjects we've covered today.

[00:18:02] And I think one that I would love to get your thought on is, you know, I, I call it my real, my real career. My first real job was in mergers and acquisitions at city group. And, I, I, you know, I'd had all these other jobs before, but not a real career job is my opinion. And. You know, since that time, I've paid attention to that industry.

[00:18:26] And I look at these, you know, KPMG reports that show, I don't know, something like 85% of acquisitions end up not being worth what the company paid for them. And yet you guys have had such rapid growth and acquisitions were a part of that over this, you know, 16 years you were the big cheese. What, what maybe tip about acquisitions or what do you think you did differently there that you didn't fall into the 85% so much.

[00:18:49] David: Well, I thought it was, important enough that I actually wrote a whole chapter on that for my book because I was struck by the same thing when I first got the Honeywell was, I'd read all the literature too that said that. But one of the things that was always troubling to me was, if that's true, why do private equity firms make so much money acquiring something?

[00:19:19] And then. Selling it five, three to seven years later, I thought, okay, there's gotta be something here. So rather than say, and I had just written off a bunch of acquisitions that had been done by my predecessors because the accountants, said it didn't pass asset impairment test. So investors were asking me what, you know, what, what makes you think you're going to be.

[00:19:45] Doing anything here and just give us the money. Don't blow it on acquisitions, and it would have been very easy, I think, for me to just say, well, I'm going to be smarter than my predecessors. instead, kind of looking for, let's say, false vacation Pius, I turned to my new M and a person and said, okay, I want you to analyze 10 years worth of deals that we did.

[00:20:12] What worked, what didn't. And I want to develop a process that we will always follow to make sure that we do only good smart deals, because I'm going to make, get us to a point where we're a good cash generator and I want to be able to make money on acquisitions. Well, it took about six months. but may, she did just a great job.

[00:20:37] And we worked on this together over that period of time and a broken up into identification, valuation, due diligence, integration, and made it a process, a process that we would always follow with rigor and vigor, as I'd like to say. And as a result of that, we did a about a hundred acquisitions, and I want to say it was like four a.

[00:21:05] 14 or $15 billion in total. We did about 70 divestitures for like another $8 billion or so, and as a result, and we completely changed the growth profile of the, of the company as a result. But it was just kind of, again, a very different mindset to how did we want to look at acquisitions? And we didn't just do it as an ad hoc exercise.

[00:21:30] We turned it into a process and that made a difference. I love it.

[00:21:35] Jess: You know, I'd be interested, you talked about investors, I'd be interested in your mind, what, you know, all this year, all these years of doing this, you, you obviously had great success that attracted investors, but do you have any advice for people, especially as they get into maybe larger investor volumes of maybe something key that not everybody does that you think makes the difference with attracting investors, investor relations, that whole world?

[00:22:04] David: Well, the first one is performance matters, right? There's, there's nothing that gets, investors to believe in you, like out-performance. So, never forget that piece of it. The second one I would say is figure out what's right for the company, what's the right path, what's the right strategy? And then.

[00:22:27] Tell that story to investors instead of trying to figure out what investors want to hear and then kind of tailoring your story to that. Yeah. I'm not saying ignore them, but know what it is you want to do and what it is, what you're trying to accomplish so that investors will feel comfortable that you actually do know what you're doing and it's going to generate value for them.

[00:22:53] Jess: When you see people mess that up, what's, what's a rookie mistake or what's, what's a common mistake that you see people doing there?

[00:23:00] David: I think just committing too much to everybody feeling that if you're going to make an investor happy, what you have to do is give them the answers they want to hear as opposed to perhaps the answers they should hear.

[00:23:18] And you kind of, you to know who you are and who your company is and you gotta to have some faith in it. I mean, it doesn't mean that you disinvest or that you don't care about what they think or that you don't try to gear your answer in a way that at least expresses some sensitivity to their point of view.

[00:23:38] But you have to have what you think makes sense and why you want to do it. And why is going to be good for them? What are they going to see out of it and the performance of the company. And unless you have that over time, I think you just get burned. You look like you don't know what you're doing and well, cause you don't.

[00:23:59] Jess: Yeah. Well that makes a ton of sense. You know, we've got a couple of minutes here left. you get interviewed, you've been interviewed for years, some of the biggest publications in the world. What's a question that you don't get asked enough? Or what's a question you wish people would ask more?

[00:24:20] David: Well, to your point, I get asked an awful lot of questions. she's out at all. I don't think there's any that comes to mind that I said, yeah. Whenever I come, nobody ever asks me. Yeah. I'm sorry, I'm putting you on the spot.

[00:24:33] Jess: No, that's fine. let's go a different direction. You know, you've accomplished so much in the business world.

[00:24:38] What are your thoughts on philanthropy and impact investing and making the world better and, and, some of those sides of things?

[00:24:47]David: Well, I'm not sure exactly where you're going with that, but I would say, how can you be against. Anything that makes the world a better place. So it's an easy thing to be in favor of.

[00:24:59] I would just say, I do think that it's, people sometimes give money without really thinking about, well, how's it going to get used and where's it going to go and how effective or efficient is the organization in making that happen? Yeah. So I would always kind of look at that, and that's one of the things we always did with our charitable giving at Honeywell was.

[00:25:22] Only work with organizations that had just an, a terrific track record, whether we were building houses in Haiti or in the South Pacific. When, the typhoon, the tidal waves went up through there. the got to be safe. I mean, any of those initiatives, we always made sure that it. It was with organizations that could deliver and could make something happen.

[00:25:50] So we wouldn't just give money, for example, to an organization that said, Hey, we'll build a hundred houses. We would actually hire somebody to make sure that those hundred houses got built, got built the right way, got built first, got the right materials, because I wanted to make sure that things actually happen, that we didn't just.

[00:26:13] Feel better cause we'd written a check.

[00:26:15] Jess: Yeah. If, let's say a nonprofit leader, wants to take your book, any tips on translating it to the nonprofit world and any guidance that, maybe a lens they want to look through as they're reading your book?

[00:26:30] David: Well, Jess, I'd have to say, you just touched on one of my hot points and.

[00:26:36] Yes. I think the book would be hugely beneficial to nonprofit organizations, and the observation I've had about nonprofit organizations is that they are amazingly tolerant of poor performance in individuals and in the organization. And I think it's just because. they figured it because they're nonprofit, they're just doing things because of goodness.

[00:27:05] And that performance doesn't quite matter the way it does in a public company or a for profit where people are paying attention to it all the time. But there should be a drive for measurable performance in nonprofits, also the organization and the people. And it ought to be just as rigorous as it is in a for profit organization.

[00:27:27] So as fire. in fact, I made, made sure I made this point in the book was that it was applicable to nonprofit organizations also.

[00:27:36] Jess: Yeah, that's great. Well, again, everybody please go to Amazon pre order your copy of winning now winning later, or if you're like me, I'm going to be going to audible to preorder mine so I can listen to it on audio. maybe

[00:27:47] David: I spent a, I'm glad you mentioned the audio book cause I spent. 12 hours reading that damn thing into a microphone last week and halfway through chapter one as I sat in that soundproof booth, I wondered what the heck had I gotten myself into? But I'm pretty proud of the result now, so I hope, I hope you like,

[00:28:08] Jess: no, I'm glad you did. I, you know, I tried to get through, I only read. Maybe one book a year if I'm lucky, but I listened to three to four books a week, so I'm very happy you put it in an audio. So if you only did it for me, this is me saying thank you. We'll, maybe to end off here. Let's go for another one of my favorite questions.

[00:28:29] What's a piece of advice you would go back and give a younger version of yourself?

[00:28:36]David: yeah, if I could have become self-aware earlier in my career, I think it would have been helpful. And when I say self-aware, it's one of the big points that I make to all the leadership classes that I ever talked to was that you don't do everything well, and not all of your personal characteristics are going to be, outstanding for you.

[00:29:03] And you know, there's a lot of. Focus out there now on focus on your strengths. But yeah, you got to focus on your weaknesses also. And if I had just been more aware of what my issues were, I think it would have been helpful. And it probably took me till I was about 40 before I finally acknowledged one of them because, I was forced to, and it was this whole idea that I could be defensive, which by the way, I still can, and I had to really.

[00:29:33] Modify how I did things and how I thought about things. If I was really going to get all the facts and opinions the way I want it to, if I had known them when I was younger in my career, would have been a lot better. And I've, I tell every leadership class, you're all different, but you have to figure out what those things are for you.

[00:29:53] And I can guarantee you as good as you are, you got them. So work on figuring out what they are and the sooner you figure it out, the better. It'll be for you.

[00:30:02] Jess: Yeah. Well, with that one, with being defensive, you know, you'd been successful, you get all the way to 40 and you've got that as a habit. W what did unwinding that habit look like?

[00:30:13] Did you, did you have a note to yourself? Did you remind yourself like how do you not slip back into an old rut?

[00:30:17] David: Well, I would say in the beginning I did slip from time to time, cause it's something you got to correct yourself and that's, there's no coach or somebody who's watching you all the time. Who can do this for you. It's something you have to figure out yourself. And I had this, one meeting where, it had, you know, we had an incident and it brought it clear to me that, Oh my God, I am defensive and I'll tell you the story is I was in the meeting with a bunch of my peers and one of my peers said something.

[00:30:50] I responded and he said, geez, Dave, don't be so defensive. And I turned to another buddy figuring, okay, well this will put this one to bed as well. Jeez, you know, do you consider me defensive? And he said, no, Dave. I wouldn't say you're defensive, but I would say that if we say something negative about your organization and we're not 100% correct, you will rip our lips off.

[00:31:17] So that's what got me to say, Oh my God, maybe I better think about this. So fast forward, like three years later, and I'm trying, I'm trying, I'm trying to do a better job of this. all the time. Three years later, I'm in a meeting and it's a skip level meeting. And like the year before, we had a call center where the answer rate was only like 65% and I was appalled and I got it up to like 91 or 92%.

[00:31:48] So I do this and I, and then I go onto something else. So having the skip level meeting and this one employee says, gee, you know, our answer rate is only like 91% in the center. It means that 8% of the time people aren't even getting through and this is a real problem and we ought to do something about it.

[00:32:09] And I started to say, I spent about a minute going into, do you realize it was like 62% when I got here? I got it to 92% now you're complaining about 92. And I got to that point and I just stopped and I looked at him and said, you know, you're right. 8% miss calls, 3 million calls a year, 240,000 consumers.

[00:32:34] I'm annoying every year. You're right. I shouldn't have stopped at 92 I should have kept trying to try to get it up to a hundred and I realized how easy it was to kind of slip back into that mode that just. It's just like I said, that self-awareness, being aware of it in yourself and that are making a difference.

[00:32:53] I also found that, hiring the right kinds of people on the, on my staff made a difference for me and I needed people who could disagree with me, but if they could disagree in a way that didn't elicit an emotional response for me, it made it a lot easier for me.

[00:33:13] Jess: I love it. Well, this has been great, Dave. I really appreciate all the time you've given us now.

[00:33:17] David: Happy to Jess. And, like I said, I hope people like the book. I think it's chock full of useful information. I always said most business books would make great pamphlets. It's 10 pages, a concept and 250 pages of story that just says the same thing.

[00:33:35] So I really tried to do something here where every page at something that you could use.

[00:33:42] Jess: Well. June 30th I'm looking forward to it.

[00:33:44] David: Me too.

[00:33:46] Jess: Okay, everyone, thanks for listening.