Reverse It "Shtick to Business" Mini-series - Dr. Peter McGraw

Episode 403, Dr. Peter McGraw

Dr. Peter McGraw

Dr. Peter McGraw is a behavioral economist and global expert in the scientific study of humor. He directs The Humor Research Lab (HuRL), hosts the podcast I’M NOT JOKING, and is the co-author of The Humor Code: A Global Search for What Makes Things Funny. Peter’s work has been covered by the New York Times, Wall Street Journal, Harvard Business Review, NPR, and CNN. He’s a sought-after speaker and professor who teaches MBA courses at the University of Colorado Boulder, University of California San Diego, and London Business School. A TV show based on his life is currently in development.

Jess: Today on the show I've got Dr. Peter McGraw. Thanks for making time.

[00:00:03] Dr.Peter: Yeah. It's a pleasure to be here, at least virtually.

[00:00:06] Jess: Yeah. So for people that don't know about HuRL, they don't know about your books. Can you give us the elevator pitch?

[00:00:14] Dr.Peter: Sure. Yeah. So I'm now a dozen years ago, I stumbled on the question of what makes things funny and I turned my kind of boring esoteric, behavioral economist, academic life on its head and became a humor researcher. I run a laboratory called the Humor Research Lab, lou've already stepped on my punchline. So the acronym is HuRL and I have kind of ventured out into the real world, so to speak in various ways.

My first book is called the humor code, a global search for what makes things funny, team up with a journalist. And we. We travel the world, trying to answer peculiar questions about, about humor. And then my most recent book launched during a pandemic pro tip don't ever do that. It's called “Shtick to Business”.

What the masters of comedy can teach you about breaking rules, being fearless and building a serious career. And in it, I try to bring my day job teaching MBAs and my night job decoding comedy together with some. Useful, hopefully advice, about, you know, business and career development. Yeah.

[00:01:26] Jess: So, and have you always taught in Colorado?

[00:01:30] Dr.Peter: Yes, I did. So that I did my postdoc in the public policy school at Princeton, working with Danny Conoman, who is one of the fathers of behavioral economics and, but yeah, I've only worked at the University of Colorado. They can't seem to get rid of me. So even though I spend a lot of time elsewhere, it's my, but it's a great home base as we were chit chatting before this, I'm a big fan of Western living I'm currently in California on leaf.

[00:02:04] Jess: I love it.  So, Our listeners will know Shane Snow author of Smart Cuts, from previous episodes. And I was excited. We've talked about this already as excited when people reached out, because I was already reading your book. Shane's a big fan and I'm a fan. I just finished it yesterday. And, we'll, I'll save it for the show.

[00:02:20] Cause there's so many practical things that I was impressed at the lens that you look through it. And I feel like it was helpful for me. So, let's jump into one of these though, so, okay. How about, how about reversing things? Can you talk about how, what that principle looks like in comedy and how entrepreneurs or innovators might use it?

[00:02:39] Dr.Peter: Sure. Absolutely. So, you know, in the book I make, I make the case that the average person is not going to benefit from being funnier at work. I actually tell people don't try to be funnier at work and it's not because I don't think there are benefits. It's just, I'm worried about telling a thousand people in business to go forth and be funny because, you know, you ended up having t guy, you know, the guy who thinks he's funny and you really just, you just have created a toxic worker and one toxic worker is way worse than one incredibly funny worker. And so, so in the book I say, don't, don't be funny. Think funny. And so chapter one, I call reverse it. And so it's really a sort of deep dive into one way that comedians, you know, arguably at least in the, you know, one of the most creative sets of people in the world, right. Be able to create laughs on command, think how they sort of either naturally think or learn to think right out of the gate. And so I talked about the reversals of the comedy 101 and it can, it can form the basis of a punchline.

[00:03:54] I know so many young men, the king of the one-liners has a joke he says, when I read about the dangers of drinking, I, Jess, what did he do when he stopped reading? Reading? Indeed. Yes, that's right. Which I know would be painful for you. You are a, a big reader. I, I had, I got a chance to speak to Anthony, and he has, he has this very hilarious joke.

[00:04:19] I'm going to butcher it, but do my, I'll do my best with it. He says, you know, my parents were really strict. My mom and dad once made me smoke an entire pack of cigarettes in one sitting, just to teach me a valuable lesson about brand loyalty. And so, you know, the comics do this, you know, they create punchlines using this, reversal, but they also create premises.

[00:04:44] So Chris Rock has a bit in tambourine, his Netflix special about the value of bullying, right? The world thinks bullying is bad. And then Chris Rock points out the ways that it's good in terms of preparing you for a very difficult world, a challenging life, you know, he's like half of education is teacher.

[00:05:04] The other half is bullies or train wreck. The Amy Schumer, romcom, you know, flips the normal romcom script. Boy meets girl. A boy loses girl, boy gets girl back in train wreck. Very funny movie, Amy Schumer plays the stereotypical boy role, right? Not able to commit corral saying, you know, promiscuous, et cetera.

[00:05:27] And so, you know, that's great for me for making jokes, but, but one of the valuable things I think is, is that we live in a world where people. Talk a lot about being creative, but, but either don't know how to do it, or really don't even embrace it because creative ideas are really scary and they violate the status quo.

[00:05:54] And, you know, I mean, listeners don't appreciate this. I think they recognize how hard it is to, to excel in business, how hard it is to build a business. And what ends up happening though, is because it's so difficult. Failure rates are, are so high, you know, 90 plus percent, right? It's like my dating life.

[00:06:15] You know what I mean? Tremendously difficult to make this happen and, what it ends up causing people to do is play things safe. When I think what you have to do is the opposite is to take risks and the status quo bias really makes it hard to take risks that is, but the loss of a change away from the status quo looms larger than the potential gain from that change.

[00:06:44] Right? And so we are in our hearts, minds and souls, more effected by negatives than positives. And so one of the cool things about reversals are they just smashed the status quo. They just moved so far away from the status quo in part, because they're heading in the opposite direction than people would normally move away from the status quo.

[00:07:06] And so what ends up happening is when you start looking around into the world of business, you can start to find these really fun, interesting case studies. Of people who have thought in reverse, who sort of naturally think like comedians do, but instead of making punchlines in premises, they're making products and marketing communications and, and those things when, when done well, stand out from the rest, so to speak.

[00:07:37] Jess: So I believe in this. Idea of standing out so much. but I want to hear why you think it's important. What, like so many folks are worried about being better. Oh, ours is faster than the other guys. Ours is something like this, but they managed to be better in a way that doesn't stand out. And it seems like they don't make enough money or like the average consumer is like, I don't know how much do I care about that.

[00:08:02] Dr.Peter: Right.

[00:08:03] Jess: And yet those folks that are. Distinctly different in the way. They're better seem to just dominate. So in your mind, how do you describe the value of standing out of that novelty, that getting attention?

[00:08:17] Dr.Peter: Well, yeah, so some of it is it's free advertising, you know, I mean, I was early in my career when I was thinking about becoming, you know, much more outward, facing much more of a public academic.

[00:08:32] I was, I, you know, the obvious thing that I would have done was, to do essentially behavioral economics to, to do, to talk about decision making. The issue was there's a, there's a gentleman in my field who, who listeners may know his name is Dan Arielli. And Dan is a brilliant guy and he was very early to the sort of pop science stuff.

[00:08:53] His first book, I think, was a bestseller in 2004.

[00:08:56] Jess: Is that predictably irrational or which one?

[00:08:58] Dr.Peter: predictably irrational. He followed up with another bestseller and then another best seller and so on the man's good. And I, I remember thinking to myself, I can't out Dan Arielli, you know, I just can't do it.

[00:09:11] And so why try? And so I could, I, could've made a little tiny pivot be a little bit different, you know what I mean? But, what became very clear was, Oh, I was like, Oh, it's the humor stuff that's going to have a chance to pop. Now I will tell you this, it hasn't been profitable for me, but it has been life and career changing.

[00:09:32] So it has checked a lot of boxes. It's one of the nice things about having the paycheck of academic. I could, I could live without, without turning it into a, like a big business, but it has been tremendously successful. I remember reading Seth Golden's book, The Purple Cow. And, for those of you who are not familiar with The Purple Cow, he talks about you're driving in Kansas, you know, and I 70, and there's just farmland, farmland, farmland, cow, cow, cow.

[00:10:04] And there's one purple cow that you see. You don't just drive by and go, wow, look, there's a purple cow. You stop the car. You get out of the car, you take pictures of the purple cow. You tell everyone, you know, I saw a purple cow. And so I think the value of standing out I'll be, it can be a risky one because as we'll talk about it, you can't make everyone happy.

[00:10:28] But when you make someone happy, boy, they want to talk about it. You know, that's, that's the first thing. And, and as someone who doesn't actually like promoting things, I liked the fact that the, some of the stuff I had naturally promotes itself. So when you have a lab called hurl journalists, come to you to talk to you, you don't have to approach them and so on.

[00:10:52] And so, you know, that even naming my, my lab that, you know, really was an act of creativity and it probably took me an extra 20 minutes than I would have, otherwise, if I wasn't thinking about purple cows. The next thing is that, you know, we live in a world with 8 billion people and yes, there are some universal things that everybody needs, you know, air and water and, think universal healthcare, you know, but really there's this term in that I teach in business school called heterogeneity.

[00:11:29] It's essentially that people have different tastes and needs and in a big, big world, some of those tastes and needs can be pretty far out and they can be opposing. So I'll give you an example of this related to the reversal. So, you know, everybody, couldn't imagine living without their mobile phone without their smartphone and the phones keep getting smarter and smarter and smarter, but let's be honest for most of us that are sort of smart enough and in many ways, or for some of us are for some circumstances, they're too smart.

[00:12:06] And so, you know, you're imagining you're a Brooklyn based entrepreneur actually to Brooklyn based entrepreneurs. And you're thinking about taking on Apple and Samsung in the smartphone market. How do you outsmart those guys? Like that seems pretty difficult to do, well if you think like a comedian, if you think in reverse, you don't create a smartphone, you create a dumb phone.

[00:12:31] So you strip away all of the bells and whistles from your phone until you just have the basics, text, call navigation, alarm, and so on. And you build what these guys did, what they called the lite phone. And it's for people who don't want to be more connected it's to be less connected. And the idea is that in a world of smartphone users, there's a whole bunch of people who want to be more connected, but there's some of us who want to be less connected and we can't rely on ourselves to, to have the willpower to connect ourselves less.

[00:13:09] And so then you just buy this machine. Which makes it easy to go to the farmer's market without being disturbed.

[00:13:17] Jess: love it. You know? and for everybody that wants to look that up it's light is L I T E correct?

[00:13:23] Dr.Peter: That's correct.

[00:13:23] Jess: Yeah. and, you know, a question I have for you, cause I was thinking about this, you know, I was thinking about how actually not, not just comedy would prepare someone for entrepreneurship cause there's so many like ou know, you just fail and fail and fail, and then you get your one little win, right? It's like when you're an entrepreneur you sell and nobody wants it. Nobody wants it. Nobody wants it. Somebody wants it a little bit,

[00:13:43] Jess: you know, and then you have to figure out what they liked about it to double down on and these kind of things. And like scape, you know, I feel like most action sports prepare you for that, especially skateboarding,

[00:13:52] Jess: because if you're going to progress, you're mostly not landing. You know, it's mostly falling. and that's how you get to the point where you're not falling. Right? But if you stop falling, it just means you're not learning any new tricks, right?

[00:14:05] Dr.Peter: Yes

[00:14:07]Jess: So my question is. How I'm interested in your mind. Any, any thoughts you have is so I'm listening to this, I'm thinking reversal. Oh yeah. You know, like I'm trying to build a big real estate investment trust. Right. And, you know, Blackstone and Brookfield already have 500 billion each in assets, under management and plenty in their big, giant rates.

[00:14:27] I'm not going to out Blackstone, Blackstone.

[00:14:29] Dr.Peter: Right. That's right.

[00:14:30] Jess: If I'm going to do a reversal, I'm going to go another direction. You know, for us that looks like we're actually just zeroing in, on individuals. We're going after entrepreneurs, right. Who either want another source of income? Cause they don't want all their eggs in one basket or they just sold a company and they don't want to risk having to do that all over again.

[00:14:46] So they just want to put some like boring, reliable money somewhere where they just have like. You know, sleep well at night money, you know, and wall street just doesn't care about individuals. I mean, maybe they'll talk to somebody broker maybe, but they're not like when you can meet with the Saudis and get a $20 billion check at once.

[00:15:02] You're not sitting with some entrepreneur for a million bucks, right? Yes, I see. Right.

[00:15:06] Jess: So, but my question for you is it's great for me to try and pat myself on the back look, I'm doing a reversal like Dr. McGraw says to right. But that balance beam of, when am I just being crazy? Or like, how do you know, like, have I reversed enough?

[00:15:22] Have I, have I gone too far? Like, you know, you hear the advantage. Somebody like Jonah Berger from Wharton talks about same, same, but different, you know, like the invisible influence stuff. Right. But like, you need to be novel, but you, but don't be so far out there that you scare people, you know? And you talk about this in comedy of like the comedians where they, if they break the rules too much, they discuss some people and alienate certain audiences, but if they don't do it enough, it wasn't funny. And can, can you just talk about that sweet spot or any principles for the rest of us finding the sweet spot?

[00:15:54] Dr.Peter: Yeah, so I, I think that your, I mean, your, your instincts are right.

[00:16:00] You know, because what, what you're really describing is kind of a trial and error process. And I joke that vaudeville was the first lean startup. That is that, what comedians do when we see a comedian special. So when we see Chris Rock doing tambourine, we just think this man is just so gifted. You know, he just has it so to speak and what you don't see is the time he spends working on jokes, workshopping them running premises and ideas, and kind of crummy, punchlines past. Early audiences, small audiences and, and paying very close attention to their reactions. And so what comedians do, and I think what Silicon Valley often does is they, they fail a lot and Oh, and your, your skateboarders, they're all, they're all the same.

[00:16:55] They all follow the same thing, which is you don't go out as a skateboarder and try to do a trick off a 10 foot staircase. You know, you start with a three, two foot or three foot staircase. Right. And the idea is that if you eat, you eat it, you, you're not going to destroy yourself in the same way you don't, if you, if your joke doesn't land on a Netflix special, you're not screwed, you know, that kind of thing.

[00:17:20] So I think some of it is, you're just testing these ideas. You know what I mean? You're just putting them out. You're having conversations. You're putting up a webpage. You're seeing, you know, you're doing some Google ad words. You're seeing are people clicking through, and if they're not no big deal, cause you've only spent a little bit of money and time and so on.

[00:17:40] You're just, you're searching for that product market fit that exists there. And, and so comedians are doing that also because they, they know who their audiences, you know, and they're, they're just honing that stuff along, along the way. The thing is that sounds easy, but it's very difficult for the average person to do.

[00:18:02] It's even difficult for that average entrepreneur to do, because they want to just get it locked up. Okay. Here it is. And it's why it's my business schools used to teach you to build a big business plan, to work it all out, work, all the, all the conditionals and, and all this kind of stuff. I'm like, I never asked my students to do that.

[00:18:20] It's a waste of time. I'm like make a pitch, write a one pager. You know, like get the ideas down and then start testing it. That's there. And so one of the things that I, when I, when I work with kind of more corporate kind of audiences, I do this thing. I'm not sure I can say it cause we want to keep this G-rated I'll call it.

[00:18:42] I'll call it shtick storming, but you can imagine the word that it really is. And, and this is to brainstorm truly terrible ideas. Right. And so, so this, the act of shticks storming is great because it, it overcomes all the problems with brainstorming, which is people hold back, cause they don't want to be criticized and so on.

[00:19:06] But what ends up happening is sometimes one of these ideas is quote unquote, so crazy. It might actually work. And so thinking in reverse can't guarantee results, but it's just a useful practice. There, but, you know, you don't know until you test it in the same way that you test your mundane idea, will it, will it work well?

[00:19:28] Jess: So I kind of love it because you've actually done it. I'm interested in what that process looked like. you know, so most people in academia in my experience, they like the prestige of letters after their name and, and the professional respect and the whatever. Right. And so naming, you know, intentionally naming your own thing HuRL is kind of breaking the rules, right. So I'm intentionally showing up as not serious in a world that just worships seriousness. Right. Can you talk about, like, what were the small survivable bets that you were doing, or how did you test the waters or what did that look like for your career?

[00:20:10] Dr.Peter: Yeah. So, so you're right. Like, you know, one of the things that was fascinating when I stumbled on the question of what makes things funny, I was, first of all, I was perplexed by that question. I could not answer it. And part of the reason I couldn't answer it was not only had, I never thought about it before. Despite if you had said to me, Peter, you a funny professor, I would be like, yeah, I'm like, I buy professional by professor standards I am hilarious. By comedian standards, I'm terrible, but you know, it's a low bar in academia and I valued comedy in the way that many people did, but I had never read a paper about humor. I never read a book about humor. I had no idea. And one of the reasons, despite it being an age-old question one that goes back to at least great Greek philosophy, at least as early documented as Greek philosophy, probably before that certainly was, I was like, why is no one studying this thing? I mean, there were people studying it, but it was these little niche, you know, very small, like not mainstream psychologist who were doing it. And I'm like, they were studying things that I think were way less important. But at first blush, as you've alluded to, it doesn't seem like a serious topic.

[00:21:31] You know, it's, the problem is even academics sort of spend most of their lives processing, very shallowly, you know? And so when I, so my first step was, let me try to see if I can answer this question. If there's something valuable that I can add to the literature, and then let me just start small.

[00:21:51] And I started with one paper. And so I wrote a paper with, with Caleb Warren who's the co-creator of. Of, of this theory that we developed and we published that paper and, and, and it happened, and we did something that most humor researchers don't do. We aimed for one of the top journals in the field.

[00:22:13] So there was a there's this, this very niche journal. We can't even get it in my library called humor. And so all of the humor research has played in that playground and they just talk to each other. And I was like, well, that's not going to be useful. It's work. We got to hit the, the number one top, top level journals.

[00:22:34] And that paper, I swear to you got in with no revisions. It's the only time I've ever written a paper that the editor said you could ignore the reviewers. We're accepting this paper without edits. It was incredible. Now, when that paper came out, the journal sent out a press release and my phone blew up and I was like, Oh, I think I'm onto something here.

[00:23:05] And then the next thing that I did was I gave a public talk. I gave a TEDx talk based on the ideas that were in that it was good. It's, you know, it's a great talk now. I worked very hard on it and it, you know, it, I made a pedophile joke. And so I don't think it made it onto the Ted website for that reason.

[00:23:23] And so unfortunately, but nonetheless, it's got, you know, it has organically gotten a lot of attention, sort of naturally people finding it, you know, that's it. And then the third thing that happened was, and again, I was, it was too early to give that TEDx talk in many ways. You know what I mean?

[00:23:42] I had barely been studying the topic. The next thing was my first book was not an Opus. It wasn't, it was a Dan Arielli's predictably irrational. It was based on 10 years of research. That book was an exploration. It was like, we're going to use this book in order to test and develop these ideas.

[00:24:04] And so that was just sort of became something I did, which it was like, well, I'm just going to try this. I'm going to make something. I'm going to make it as good as I can, but I'm not going to make it because I am the world's expert on this thing. What happened was I, I gradually became the world's expert by doing things that world experts do.

[00:24:26]and that that's like that, that sort of, you know, being fearless heart of, shtick to business that I was talking about, you know, because it's scary to do those things. It's uncertain. You may, you know, and, and to be honest, my first book did not do that well, you know, I don't regret doing it, but it wasn't, it wasn't the splash that I had hoped that it was going to be.

[00:24:51] Jess: Yeah. and yet having done it, feels like a stepping stone to where you have been able to get to.

[00:24:58] Dr.Peter: Well, the second book doesn't happen if I haven't done the first book solo, you know, because I, I did the second book completely differently. and I believe that I could, I could do the book solo, you know, so the first book I did with a, with a journalist, and so I think a lot of people don't realize the value of trying and middling success you know, that may come because you, you know, we live long lives and, and these, these efforts. Ended up we're, you know, really we're trying to build, I'm trying to build this sort of craftsperson mentality in anybody who listens to me. And, I think that the average entrepreneur would benefit from thinking about their endeavors as like a blacksmith, you know, which is like not every sort of blacksmith makes is their best work, but the idea is the next one is going to do better the next one's going to be better. And so on.

[00:26:01] Jess: I love it. Well, I think this is great as far as, maybe we'll wrap here on the principle of reverse it and we'll tell everybody to tune into the next episode of our, our major stick series. and anything else you want to close out for reverse it? We feel like we got it covered.

[00:26:14] Dr.Peter: You know, I have one thing that might be useful. Yeah. And that is that something that comedians do better than anyone else. And that is. They turn a bug into a feature. Right? So, so we often lament our weaknesses. We often lament our personal weaknesses and our professional weaknesses and so on. And there's sort of, there's sort of three strategies I think that you can have.

[00:26:45] So one is, is you could just ignore your weakness and focus on your strengths. I think that's fine to do, you know, Shaquille O'Neil. Never really worked that hard on his free throws and he never needed to because he was the world's best dunker shot blocker and rebounder, you know, so that's fine. the next one is to, is to try to improve your weakness, at least get it to a place where it's not holding you back.

[00:27:12] What comedians do is they, they often turn their weakness into a strength, you know, so they do this with their self-deprecation. For example, they'll make fun of. How they look, you know, they're too tall, they're too short. They're too hairy. They're too bald. They're too fat. They're too skinny. They use that as a way to create comedy and to license themselves, to be able.

[00:27:33] So if they can criticize herself, they can criticize others. But turning these weaknesses into strengths, I think is something that's really cool when businesses do this. I'll give a quick example of Buckley's cough syrup. This is, this is fitting in a time of COVID. Right. So Buckley's was sitting like number nine in the cough syrup market in Canada, as a Canadian, you probably know Buckley's, he's had a problem, which was not only was where they sitting at number nine, which means like when you have a severe cough, you're not variety seeking.

[00:28:06] You just want the best cough syrup possible. The other problem they had was their, the Buckley's tasted terrible. And so you could be like, okay, well let's, we could try to ignore that. Well, that's not a good idea. We could try to fix it, pour a bunch of sugar into our cough syrup and add Cherry flavor. Or you could do what Buckley's did, which was roll out a campaign, which is, it tastes awful.

[00:28:28] And it works right. The implication being, you want cough syrup that works. Medicine is not supposed to taste good. And actually the worst tasting medicine might be the one that's best at murdering that virus that you have. And Buckley's went with on the basis of that, turning a bug into a feature to number one in the market, and eventually got acquired by, by a pharmaceutical company. It’s great, great reversal.

[00:28:56] Jess: And I love in the book you bring up, Gmail had trouble. Sometimes the emails wouldn't go out fast enough. And so instead of covering it up or pretending it wasn't a problem or trying to get it to go at least a little bit faster, instead they add the undo send feature, which is like one of my very favorite features on, on Gmail, because I'm always typing too fast, hit enter and go, Oh, I didn't spell it.  I didn't spell check that. Right. So. My, my one little attempt at, at what you're talking about is, when I've taught in my consulting life, when I've taught events, I make a joke and I say, okay, listen, we're going to play a game here. I'm going to intentionally spell some words wrong today on the whiteboard and whoever can spot that wins a chocolate bar. At first, he looked can't tell him my joking, you what? And then they figure out I'm really terrible at spelling.

[00:29:43] Dr.Peter: That's brilliant.

[00:29:47] Jess: And they all think it's so funny. And then we laughed for like two days straight about how many things I can't spell when I'm supposed to be the one who I'm supposedly advanced enough to be teaching this event. But I can't spell regular words half the time, you know?

[00:30:00] Dr.Peter: Yes. I love it. And it's almost costless. Like it costs you a few chocolate bars. And everybody's, else's better off for it. And you can now write things on the board without anxiety.

[00:30:13] Jess: Well, and those really detailed peach people who is just like nails on a chalkboard.

[00:30:17] They almost can't hear what I'm saying, because they're so worried. I'm spelling things wrong, you know, it gives them a chance to get over it. You know what I mean?

[00:30:24] Dr.Peter: That's fantastic. That's a, that's a way to think, like a comedian. I love it.

[00:30:30] Jess: Okay. Well, listen. Where's the best place for people to connect with you.

[00:30:34] Where's the best place to buy the book? What, where should we send the folks?

[00:30:36] Dr.Peter: I think petermcgraw.org is the best place to find me. I'm on Twitter a bit. I'm on LinkedIn. I love to connect with people on LinkedIn and the book of course is available on Amazon. Yeah, audible,

[00:30:53] Jess: audible.com. People. There is an audio book and listen to it while you're commuting while you're driving around. That's how I got to it yesterday. And it is a good book. I'm a fan.

[00:31:01] Dr.Peter: If you, if you don't like my voice though, stay away. Cause I actually read my book.

[00:31:11] Jess: Too funny.  Okay, everybody, please tune in for the next part of our miniseries with Dr. Peter McGraw. Bye.